Raiding as a Combat Rogue

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Class: Rogue
Tree: Combat
Build: 20/51/0
Category: Raiding
Ellyee
<Fusion>
2 guides
Created: 17 Nov 2009
Updated: 11 weeks ago

Audience

This is a basic guide to raiding as a combat rogue. Although the majority of content here is designed to provide general guidance to rogues looking to improve their DPS and overall performance, certain aspects of the guide -- most notably, the discussion of Armour Penetration -- are targeted at rogues in T9 and T10 content. In addition, this guide does not, at present, cover performance optimizations for AOE-heavy fights.

Looking for a quick update on what's new with combat in 3.3? Jump right to the What's New in 3.3? section!

Guide

Overview
This guide is divided into five parts:

  1. Talents and Glyphs
  2. DPS "Cycles"
  3. Cooldown Usage
  4. Numbers to Know: Hit Caps, ArPen Caps and Crit Caps
  5. Beyond DPS: Rogue Utility
  6. What's New in 3.3?


I. Talents and Glyphs
There are two standard specs for combat rogues:


Rupture-based Combat
Spec: 20/51/0
Major Glyphs: Killing Spree, Tricks of the Trade and either Rupture or Sinister Strike
Description: This spec, based around the use of both Rupture and Eviscerate as damage-dealing finishers, takes 2/2 Blood Splatter and 3/3 Ruthlessness. Use of the Rupture Glyph will yield higher DPS on sustained, single-target fights, while use of the Sinister Strike glyph will yield better performance on fights that require frequent target-swapping or restarting of cycles.


Ruptureless Combat
Spec: 20/51/0
Major Glyphs: Sinister Strike, Killing Spree, and either Eviscerate or Tricks of the Trade
Description: This spec, which uses Eviscerate as its sole damage-based finisher, takes two points from Blood Splatter and one point from Ruthlessness to gain 3/3 Improved Eviscerate. This spec favours fights that require frequent target swapping or burst damage.


How do I decide if I should use a Rupture-based spec or a Ruptureless spec?
As a general rule, Rupture-based specs will yield higher DPS than Ruptureless specs. However, Rupture-based combat demands high Rupture uptimes which are often hard to achieve on fights that require frequent target swapping or high levels of movement. Furthermore, Rupture, as a damage-over-time finisher, lacks the burst of Eviscerate, which makes it less potent against targets that die quickly (or need to die quickly). So which spec, then, should you choose? The answer is, "It depends on what you value -- or what your guild needs most." If you prefer to put out higher DPS on single-target fights at the expensive of damage on fights that require target swapping, you'll want to choose a Rupture-bases spec. Alternatively, if your guild is having difficulty with fights that require high burst damage (Lich King, for example), Ruptureless combat may serve you better. If you're indecisive (and don't PvP or don't require Mutilate as your secondary spec), considering having two combat specs and switching between them as the situation demands.

II. DPS "Cycles"
In early-Wrath (and indeed, throughout previous expansions), rogues used fixed DPS rotations consisting of a static cycle of Slice and Dice and damage-based finishers. In the current tier of Wrath raiding, however, combat rogues no longer utilize such rigid rotations. Rather, combat cycles are now predicated on a simple set of rules that dictate the size and timing of all finishers. Although using a rule set may sound more complicated than using a static rotation, in actuality it's surprisingly easy. In this section, we explain how these rule sets operate in practice for both Rupture-based and Ruptureless combat specs.


Rupture-Based Combat
Rogues running Rupture-based combat specs will be utilizing a "High Rupture" rotation. High Rupture cycles are three-finisher cycles (Slice and Dice, Rupture and Eviscerate) that call for high Rupture uptimes. Rupture are performed with five combo points and Slice and Dice is frequently clipped to ensure maximum uptime on Rupture. Eviscerate is used sparingly to burn spare combo points. The rules for this rotation are as follows:

  • Don't let Slice and Dice drop.
  • Maximize Rupture Uptime.
  • If Slice and Dice is about to drop, refresh it with 3-4 combo points.
  • If you have 7-10* seconds left on Rupture and have at least 2 combo points, throw an Eviscerate.
  • Else, build to five combo points and refresh Rupture as it drops.


Ruptureless Combat
Eviscerate cycles are two-finisher cycles (Slice and Dice and Eviscerate) predicated on five-point Eviscerates and minimal Slice and Dice clipping. The rules for this rotation are as follows:
  • Don't let Slice and Dice drop.
  • Throw as many 5-point Eviscerates as possible.
  • If you have 5 combo points and 3-5* seconds left on Slice and Dice, pool energy as high as you can and use those combo points to refresh Slice and Dice.
  • Else, refresh Slice and Dice with as many combo points as you can just before the previous Slice and Dice drops.

*NB: In these situations, the exact number of allowable seconds left on Rupture and Slice and Dice is unique to your individual stats. To determine the precise number for you, enter your gear and spec in Aldriana's Combat Spreadsheet and look for the values of m and n, respectively, under the "Cycles" tab.


How can I tell if I'm doing my cycle right?
The best way to evaluate your DPS cycles is to upload your raid logs to be parsed by sites like World of Logs or WoW Meter Online. Look at your performance on single-target, low movement fights like Saurfang. You should expect your Slice and Dice uptime on such fights to be as close to 100% as possible (97% or higher is excellent). The uptime on Rupture should also be high, although the random number generator makes it virtually impossible to maintain near-100% uptimes. Depending on your luck and crit rate, Rupture uptimes in the range of 85%-95% will be considered good.

If you're interested in comparing your real-world DPS to your theoretical maximum, you can use a spreadsheet to tell you the latter. Aldriana of the Elitist Jerks community has made an excellent spreadsheet available here. It is important to note, however, that your spreadsheet DPS will likely be higher than your actual DPS, as it models single-target DPS under "perfect" conditions (e.g. 100% debuff uptime, no latency, etc.).

III. Cooldown Usage
Combat is distinguished from other rogue specs by its powerful cooldowns: Blade Flurry, Adrenaline Rush and Killing Spree. These three abilities -- used together or separately -- provide combat rogues with the ability to produce on-demand, burst damage, which is frequently useful in hardmode fights. The following are guidelines for using your cooldowns as effectively as possible:

Blow Your Cooldowns Early And Often
As a general rule, cooldowns should be used as early as safely possible and every time they're up thereafter. What this means in practice is that you will typically want to use all three cooldowns at the start of a given fight (watch your threat!), and then immediately as they come up again throughout the encounter. An exception to this rule occurs on fights where you need to use your cooldowns to provide burst damage early in the encounter, and using them at the start of the fight will result in them not being up in time. In these situations, you should save your cooldowns to ensure they're available on demand. Fights that may benefit from saving cooldowns include Saurfang (soft enrage), Putricide (Volatile Oozes and Gas Clouds), and Lich King (Val'kyr Shadowguards and Vile Spirits).

If possible, initial cooldown usage (and subsequent usage) should be timed to coincide with your trinket procs. The DPS boost from, say, using Killing Spree while a Deathbringer's Will proc is active is far from insignificant, and most proc-based trinkets will trigger a few seconds into a fight, thus making it easy to align your initial cooldowns with them.


Stack Your Cooldowns Whenever Possible
When certain cooldowns are used in together, their efficacy can increase. As a general rule, you will get the most benefit from stacking Killing Spree with Blade Flurry, as the additional attacks granted by the latter will be active during the duration of the former. This combination can be particular powerful in conjunction with Heroism/Bloodlust. Using Blade Flurry with Adrenaline Rush is also an effective pairing (albeit less so than Blade Flurry and Killing Spree together), and can be quite powerful when used with Fan of Knives for situations that demand heavy AOE damage. Adrenaline Rush should never be stacked with Killing Spree, as it will result in energy capping.

Despite the damage boost that results from stacking cooldowns, its rarely (if ever) efficient to wait for all your cooldowns to come up in order to use them at the same time. That is, despite the powerful synergy between, say, Killing Spree and Blade Flurry, you should not wait an extra 45 seconds for Blade Flurry (2 minute cooldown) to come up so that it may be used in conjunction with glyphed Killing Spree (1.15 minute cooldown). This is because delaying the use (in this example) of Killing Spree by 45 seconds will result in an overall loss of opportunities to use the ability -- and thus a loss of DPS -- over the course of the entire fight.


Think About Positioning
Because of the multi-target nature of Blade Flurry and Killing Spree, it is often practical to time the use of these cooldowns around "cleave" situations -- that is, situations in which your attacks can hit more than one mob. In many cases, such situations may be obvious: for example, your off-tank may stack an add on top of the boss, thus allowing you to hit both mobs at once with Blade Flurry and/or Killing Spree. In other situations, clever positioning (standing at max-hitbox, standing off to the side instead of directly in back, etc.) may allow your incidental attacks to hit mobs that are being tanked near your location. Pay close attention to your surroundings and the location of other mobs in proximity to you; if you find yourself in a position where you can "cleave," use your Blade Flurry and/or Killing Spree cooldowns appropriately. Be mindful, however, of your threat in such situations: adds and other off-tanked mobs are frequently not locked-down as tightly as boss targets, so you may run the risk of your incidental attacks pulling aggro.


Help Your Tanks!
The powerful burst potential of combat's cooldowns make them excellent tools for helping tanks establish or lock down threat. When used in conjunction with Tricks of the Trade at the start of a fight, a single rogue using Killing Spree and/or Blade Flurry can help the tank gain a crucial early threat lead on the target. The ability for Blade Flurry to hit multiple targets at once can equally be used to great effect when combined with Tricks of the Trades in order to assist an off-tank in establishing aggro on recently spawned mobs. This threat-aid is particularly useful for fights in which the off-tank may need to lock down adds quickly so that the DPS can AOE them down in a timely manner.


IV. Numbers To Know: Hit Caps, ArPen Caps and Crit Caps
As a general rule, there are few specific stat caps that rogues "must" obtain. That is, rather than specifically gemming or gearing to reach a certain amount of a given stat, rogues frequently make decisions about gear or gems based on the answer to the question, "Does the spreedsheet say this is a DPS upgrade?" This is because when a given stat increases, the relative value of other stats increase or decrease in proportion to it. As a result, it is often difficult to say, "this piece of gear is an upgrade," without first seeing how the stats on it interact with your overall stats.

That said, there are some specific "caps" that are generally beneficial for rogues to obtain -- most notably, the yellow and poison hit caps, and the Armour Penetration (ArPen) softcap. The follow sections, then, set out the values of these caps for quick reference. It is important to remember, however, that these numbers are only provided for reference. To determine which stats values you specifically should prioritize, consult Aldriana's spreadsheet.


Hit Caps
There are three "hit caps" relevant to rogues: yellow, poison and white. The yellow hit cap indicates the point at which yellow (special) attacks can no longer miss, while the poison hit cap marks the point at which poisons can no longer miss. White attacks equally can be capped through high levels of hit rating, however as these values are largely unobtainable, rogues generally do not focus on reaching them. All three rogue hit caps can be reduced through talents (specifically, Precision) and raid buffs. The following chart sets out the value of the hit caps with respect to the most common rogue talents and buffs:

Skill Ranks and/or BuffsYellowPoisonWhite
5/5 Precision
99
315
722
5/5 Precision w/ Imp. FF/Misery
99
237
722
5/5 Precision w/ Draenei Aura and Imp. FF/Misery
66
210
689



ArPen Caps
At present, Armour Penetration is hard capped at 1400 ArPen rating -- the point at which physical attacks ignore 100% of target armour. While amount of ArPen rating required to reach this cap is quite high, the ArPen-heavy itemization of T9 gear and the viability of combat maces has allowed many raiding rogues to come close. Moreover, the availability of powerful ArPen trinkets such as the Mjolnir Runestone has allowed rogues to actually reach the ArPen hardcap when the trinket procs. It is this latter ability that has caused many rogues to focus on reaching the ArPen "softcap" -- the static amount of ArPen rating which, when combined with the proc from the Mjolnir Runestone (or similar trinket), pushes one's total ArPen rating to 1400. Since there is no benefit to having ArPen rating beyond 1400, rogues attempting to reach the soft cap must carefully monitor their total ArPen rating, lest they go over. The following table sets out the softcaps for the most common ArPen trinkets and specs:

Trinkets and/or SpecSoft Cap
Needle-Encrusted Scorpion
722
Mjolnir Runestone
735
Mace Spec
1190
Mace Spec w/ Mjolnir Runestone
525



Crit Caps
Beginning with the emergence of the crit-heavy Dark Matter trinket in late Ulduar, theorycrafting rogues began turning their mind to the possibility that, at high-end gear levels, you could accumulate enough crit rating to actually reach a point where you had "maxed out" your ability to crit. This limit -- termed the "crit cap" -- represented the threshold at which a rogue's cumulative miss, dodge/parry and glancing blow percentages prevented the rogue's white crit rate from increasing further. While so-called crit capping was rarely a problem in T9 content, the large quantities of Crit and Agil on T10 gear, coupled with the relative low amount of Hit on the same gear, has made cripping capping a reasonable concern.

How, then, can you tell if you're at the crit cap? The answer, unfortunately, is, "It's complicated." Because the crit cap fluctuates with the amount of Hit and Expertise you have at any given time, there is no single "hard" crit cap the way there is, say, a hard expertise cap. Further, trinkets like Death's Verdict and Deathbringer's Will that temporarily increase your Crit via a proc make it additionally difficult to judge how close you are to crit capping simply by looking at the numbers on your paper doll. Fortunately, the newest version of Aldriana's spreadsheet includes a feature to warn you when you're crit capping. If the box on the sheet containing your crit rating turns red, it means you've surpassed the crit cap and you should either swap in Hit/Expertise gear, or swap out Agil/Crit gear to compensate.


V. Beyond DPS: Rogue Utility
Despite the fact that rogues are cast in a "pure DPS" role, the class has a number of often-overlooked non-DPS abilities that, when used smartly, can provide a great deal of utility in raiding situations. This section, then, attempts to highlight four useful (but frequently-ignored) abilities that a rogue can (and should!) use to assist the raid.


Dismantle
What is it?: A brief, 10-second disarm.
Why is it useful?: Certain mobs have weapon-based abilities that, when used, may cause high levels of damage to their target. For example, Onyxian Lair Guards employ "Ignite Weapon," which causes their melee attacks to do an additional 17,500 fire damage. Other mobs have whirlwind-type AOE abilities that can devastate melee or anyone else in melee range. By using Dismantle, you can mitigate or prevent the burst damage caused by both types of abilities.
Where to use it:

  • Deathbound Wards (Marrowgar trash);
  • Deathspeaker Zealot (Deathwhisper trash); and
  • Cult Fanatics (Deathwhisper).


Feint
What is it?: A 6 second self-buff that reduces your AOE damage taken by 50% and lowers your threat.
Why is it useful?: Many fights involve unavoidable, raid-wide AOE damage which, in hardmodes, can be particularly devastating and can kill you if not at full health. By feinting before such an AOE occurs, you not only help keep yourself alive, but also assist your healers by allowing them to use their healing bandwidth elsewhere.
Where to use it:
  • Bone Storm (Marrowgar);
  • Vengeful Spirit explosions (Deathwhisper);
  • Mark of the Fallen Champion (Saurfang);
  • Pungent Blight (Rotface);
  • Volatile Ooze Explosions (Putricide);
  • Empowered Shock Vortex (Blood Princes); and
  • Infest (Lich King).


Expose Armour
What is it?: A debuff that reduces the target's armor by 20% (does not stack with Sunder).
Why is it useful?: Any class that does physical damage benefits from a reduction in target armour. While major armour debuffs are traditionally applied by warriors in the form of Sunder Armour, there are many raid situations where Sunder may be unavailable (e.g. when no warriors are on your target), or where Sunder may be inefficient (e.g. burst damage situations where a warrior may not have time to apply a full stack of Sunders). In these situations it is both necessary and practical for a rogue to provide the major armour debuff, as Expose Armour not only reduces a target's armor for the same amount as Sunder, but also can be applied immediately via a single combo point.
When to use it: Anytime that Sunder is not being applied to your target, you should use Expose Armour. Other situations where Expose Armour are useful include:
  • Volatile Oozes (Putricide);
  • Gas Clouds (Putricide);
  • Dreamwalker adds (Dreamwalker); and
  • Val'kyr Shadowguards (Lich King).


Mind-Numbing Poison
What is it?: A poison that reduces target casting speed by 30%.
Why is it useful?: On interrupt-heavy fights where mobs cast quickly, Mind-Numbing Poison provides an excellent safety net to ensure that interrupts are not missed. Moreover, when applied via Fan of Knives, a rogue can debuff a large number of targets significantly faster than a warlock can apply Curse of Tongues.
Where to use it:
  • Corrupter tentacles (Yogg P2);
  • Any caster mob on Faction Champions; and
  • Nerubian Burrowers (Anub).


Anesthetic Poison
What is it?: A poison that removes one enrage effect on the target and does a small amount of nature damage.
Why is it useful? Many mobs (remember Magmadar?) have an enrage ability that, when active, causes increased damage their target. A rogue with Anesthetic poison on the off-hand can quickly dispel the enrage with a single shiv.
Where to use it:
  • Enraged Swarm Scarabs (Anub);
  • Gormok; and
  • Enraged Shambling Horrors (Lich King).



VI. What's New in 3.3?
With the introduction of Patch 3.3, rogues received a significant boost to their damage in the form of a new mechanism that causes an additional poison proc when the Deadly Poison stack on a target has reached five. The result of this addition, coupled with an additional beneficial change to the Improved Poisons talent, was a non-trivial shift in some of the fundamentals of rogue theorycraft. This section aims to provide a succinct overview of the changes rogues will need to make now that 3.3 is live.


Poisons
Due to the fact that combat rogues now take the Improved Poisons talent, you should use Instant Poison main-hand and Deadly Poison off-hand. You should not use Wound Poison any longer.


Gemming
Early in ICC or at lower levels of ArPen, Agil (red) gems, Agil/Hit (orange) and Hit (yellow) are the primary gems of choice. As combat rogues accumulate more ArPen-heavy gear later in ICC, they may find it beneficial to push to the hard ArPen caps by using ArPen gems for red sockets instead. Expertise gems should be used with Hit gems to avoid crit capping. You should always refer to a spreadsheet before gemming you gear.


Speccing
Because of the increased proportion of damage coming from poisons, its is now optimal for combat rogues to pick up points in 4/5 Improved Poisons and 1/3 Vile Poisons. Refer to the full section on specs for more details.


Consumables and Enchants
Due to the increased potency of poisons, Greater Speed will typically surpass Major Agility as the non-engineering/tailoring cloak enchant of choice. AP food (Fish Feasts) has become the optimal food consumable, although Hit food (Snapper Extreme) may be an option in to avoid crit capping. You should check your spreadsheet to determine what's best for you.


Notice an error? Have a question? Please feel free to leave a comment under the "Comments" tag for this article! You can also contact me directly via Private Message here on StratFu.

Acknowledgments: Thanks go to Almahym, Gokesy and Lolipokicake of Fusion for their editorial comments, and Edalia and Piralyn at deadlycupcakes for being my sounding board. This guide would not have been possible without the work of the diligent theorycrafters at the Elitist Jerks rogue forums.

Stupiful   <Critical Miss> Detheroc (US) 09 Jan 2010 23:58 3.3.0
 
5

well written and informative.

Invictius   08 Dec 2009 18:11 3.3.0
 
5

Ellyee - under Rupture-based Combat, you put an extra 'h' on 'http' so the link doesn't work. Just a heads up for editting :)

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 08 Dec 2009 21:53 3.3.0
Article author

Oh thanks! :)

Feist   <Midwinter> Ysera (US) 08 Dec 2009 13:11 3.3.0
 
3

Nice update to adjust for 3.3 mechanics, a few notes/errata:

For Combat glyphs, you designate Rupture/Eviscerate as mandatory Glyphs, and Killing Spree as the glyph that gets dropped for Tricks or FoK. This is a bad call - if you're going to drop one of the three (KSpree, Evisc/Rupture, and Sinister Strike), you want it to be Evisc/Rupture. The Kspree glyph is a massive DPS gain, wheras Evisc/Rupture are relatively minor unless you're still wearing 4T8 or something.

Invictius   08 Dec 2009 13:49 3.3.0
 

In general though, why would it ever be more pertinent to use FoK or TotT glyph over Eviscerate/Rupture? FoK is nice increase on damage on Yog (for instance) and threat generation as combat is easily manageable since our vanish is a feint utility and not an energy proc (a la mutilate).

Are those simply better for specific fights or do some rogues use those two glyphs consistently? I just don't see how the very minor additional utility could outweigh the damage from Eviscerate/Rupture (assuming you're not 100% crit capped).

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 08 Dec 2009 13:56 3.3.0
Article author

While Fan of Knives is certainly situational in nature, Tricks of the Trade is far from simply a utility ability. On the contrary, the latter provides a sizable boost to raid DPS by granting a single DPSer a 15% damage boost for six seconds every 30 seconds. Glyphed, that damage boost lasts for 10 seconds -- which is far from trivial. So, while dropping, say, the Eviscerate glyph for Tricks of the Trade may result in a loss of personal DPS, the difference is made up in the raid DPS gained by the lengthy Tricks damage buff.

Invictius   08 Dec 2009 14:09 3.3.0
 

Good points, thanks. I've been looking at it as a mainly a misdirection. 15% is pretty huge especially every 30 seconds. Do you alternate targets or stay on one? I'm generally the highest on the threat meter unless a warlock is in the comp - should I worry about folding too much threat onto my target?

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 08 Dec 2009 14:24 3.3.0
Article author

In Fusion, the rogues exchange Tricks with each other. At the start of a raid we'll decide who's Tricksing who and that person will be our primary Tricks target for the night. For example, our Tricks circle might look like this:

Ellyee -> Gokesy -> Lolipokicake -> Leito -> Ellyee

So, in this example, I'd always send my Tricks to Gokesy, except when I need to Tricks the tank for threat reasons.

Tricksing a fellow rogue has its advantages in that if the threat transfer from the Tricks buff is an issue, the Tricks recipient can always vanish. If there's not another rogue in the raid (for example, on 10-mans), I'll generally Tricks a hunter (as they can Feign in the event of too much threat) or a fellow melee DPSer (as I know they'll always be in range of me).

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 08 Dec 2009 13:35 3.3.0
Article author

Ooo you're absolutely right. That's a change that slipped through my editing process! Thanks so much for catching it!

Invictius   08 Dec 2009 12:33 3.3.0
 
5

Thanks for the updates.

So ArPen is still wholly viable, just with more of an emphasis on ensuring hard cap is achieved via trinkets or gemming. Hopefully EJ can get an updated SS up soon!

Feist   <Midwinter> Ysera (US) 08 Dec 2009 13:04 3.3.0
 

Depends entirely on your gear. The closer you get to full BIS, the more you'll want to move towards AP and Haste. Even in situations in which ArP is 'better' if stacked to the cap, in general the DPS loss is relatively small unless you're talking about a full on hardcap setup, and gemming AP/Haste offers you much more flexibility to go Mutilate on occasion. Is ArP gemming still viable? Sure. Would I reccomend it to most rogues? Probably not.

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 08 Dec 2009 12:49 3.3.0
Article author

Whether or not its beneficial for you stack ArPen will depend on the amount you have on your gear at any given time, or whether or not you're using an ArPen proc trinket like Mjolnir or Needle-Encrusted Scorpion. Like usual, the spreadsheet will be able to tell you what's best. There's an updated combat spreadsheet for 3.3 here (also linked in the text of the article).

I hope this helps!

Vaden   <Lord of Eternity> Garona (US) 03 Dec 2009 08:02 3.2.2a
 
5

Great guide, thanks.

Invictius   20 Nov 2009 23:51 3.2.2a
 
5

I'm the guild leader of a small 10m guild named "Bladesworn." I'm addicted to pushing out as much damage as possible and thank you for putting this guide up. The cap section was a great consolidated reference. I'm currently still using a rupture cycle but have been plotting my move to ArPen as I begin to horde Cardinal Rubies.

With that said, I have two questions if you wouldn't mind:
1) When gemming for ArPen, how much Agility should you attempt to retain in the process? I'm currently full Agi gems with a few Agi/Crit for good socket bonuses.

2) I understand this is an individual scenario question, but in general, is it worth it to move to a ruptureless cycle without having Runestone or Grim Toll? I have yet to see Runestone drop unfortunately.

Once again, thank you!

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 21 Nov 2009 15:15 3.2.2a
Article author

With regards to both questions, the simple answer is that you really want to download the spreadsheet I discussed in the article (you can find it here). A lot of decisions regarding rogue gearing and gemming are predicated on your unique gear set, as the value of different gear/gems will increase and decrease depending how much of a given stat you have. A spreadsheet takes all these variables into consideration to tell you what stats will provide the best DPS for you.

That said, in general, when you're at a point where it's beneficial to start pushing for the ArPen softcap, the value of ArPen as a stat is going to be greater than that of Agil. As such, you won't be using any Agil gems at all, but will, instead, be gemming all your red sockets with ArPen (your yellow sockets will stay Agil/Crit assuming it's worth gemming for the yellow socket bonus).

As for your question about Ruptureless cycle, ArPen is not the only stat that makes Eviscerate a more efficient finisher at high gear levels. As such, the spreadsheet is really the best way to tell you if, given your current gear, you're at a point where switching to an Eviscerate-only rotation is going to provide an increase in your DPS.

I hope this makes sense and is helpful! Good luck!

Invictius   21 Nov 2009 16:16 3.2.2a
 

It definitely makes sense and I knew much of the answer would lie in the spreadsheets. I was just checking to see if there was a target zone for AGI when planning an ArPen build but you answered that!

Thanks for taking the time!

Feist   <Midwinter> Ysera (US) 19 Nov 2009 11:27 3.2.2a
 

"NB: check with your warriors to see if they are putting up Shattering Throw on the Heart, first)." - Shattering Throw and Expose/Sunder Armor stack. If a Prot Warrior isn't pouring Devastates into the Heart for 'DPS' - then as a rogue you should be Exposing it.

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 19 Nov 2009 12:34 3.2.2a
Article author

Oh that's fantastic -- I wasn't aware of that. I'll make a correction to the article promptly. Thanks!

Feist   <Midwinter> Ysera (US) 19 Nov 2009 12:37 3.2.2a
 

Expose isn't worthwhile on the heart if a Prot Warrior is tanking the boss - he'll be spamming Devestate (and stacking Sunder) for DPS anyway, so the advantage of (EA - quick application, low DPS cost if not being refreshed) is non-applicable. If there isn't a Prot Warrior around of course, then yes, EA > Sunder for the heart - but Sunder > EA for the boss. :)

Naganuina   <Blades of Wrath> Icecrown (US) 19 Nov 2009 07:16 3.2.2a
 

I would add in expertise to the section on caps otherwise it looks good.

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 19 Nov 2009 12:38 3.2.2a
Article author

Thanks for the recommendation! I'm in the process of writing a similar guide for mutilate rogues, so when I finish that, I'll copy the expertise table I've written for it into this article as well.

Feist   <Midwinter> Ysera (US) 19 Nov 2009 12:41 3.2.2a
 

Keep in mind that the value of Expertise for combat is... substantially lower... to say the least, than it is for mutilate - it's a hair above white hit last I checked the numbers.

Naganuina   <Blades of Wrath> Icecrown (US) 19 Nov 2009 13:51 3.2.2a
 

Well the higher your other stats get the more valuable exp gets. For me it is just a hair under agi in terms of value. Also I felt it was important to include since it is not hard at all to go over the cap with the 10H boots, and T9 shoulders/helm all having a large amount of it on them.

Edit:
Aldriana's sheet has EP values of 2.1288 and 2.1086 for Agi and Exp respectively in my current set up(about half and half 245 and 258) so significantly over the value of white hit and a little under the value of poison hit.

Ellyee   <Fusion> Turalyon (US) 19 Nov 2009 12:46 3.2.2a
Article author

Yeah, that's why I had initially planned the expertise table for the mutilate guide. That said, it certainly won't hurt to include the numbers here, as it's generically good information to know.

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