Disappointing news for raid progression in icecrown
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TL;DR summary of this entry: This system combines all of what I hated about Algalon and ToC and makes it worse. Raiding used to be relaxing, the most frustrating thing was losing a few hours to bad internet -- when did Blizzard decide they needed to force 9-10 guilds in the world to get out of the house more?

Not looking forwards to dreading server instability and key people DC'ing again and ruining the week.

Summarizing this post from Daelo: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

First off, there's multi-week gates for normal mode icecrown. So your raiders will be bored. The good news is, this means we can probably get past the holidays without hard-mode raids, so holiday schedules will be easier.

The unlockings are (with "several" week breaks in between):

  1. Lord Marrowgar, Lady Deathwhisper, Icecrown Gunship Battle, and Deathbringer Saurfang
  2. Rotface, Festergut, and Professor Putricide
  3. the Blood Princes and Blood-Queen Lana'thel
  4. Valithria Dreamwalker, Sindragosa, and the Lich King available

The reasoning? Very clear this time, no beating around the bush: they're playing nursemaid and mommy:

"We believe a staggered release of the content will allow players to experience Icecrown Citadel at a sustainable, measured, and ultimately more enjoyable pace."

Unfortunately that's all the good news. Because there's also an aggressively limited attempt model on both normal and heroic for Professor Putricide, Blood-Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and the Lich King.

And these aren't your ToC limited attempts: this is *five* attempts. Have a main tank DC? Sorry, there goes 20% of your attempts for the week.

Don't live in Europe? Sorry, you don't get to see the most limited boss, Putricide, until live.

As more are "unlocked" you get more attempts: but of course, it's always still limited. And it's not that many more attempts: 5, 10, 15. And those attempts apply to all four bosses as well.

While the RP model of this is cute (the Ashen Verdict growing in strength and able to help you more) the pratical upshot of it is terrible, and this is the first time I have dreaded a dungeon release.

We play an internet game.

We play on remote, unstable servers.

Please stop having a larger portion of our success dependent on these factors out of our control.

Please stop feeling like you need to play the part of the Chinese government here and make sure raiders don't spend too much time in game. It doesn't matter if other guilds raid more than I do: that's the beauty of the instance and raid ID system. A handful of guilds playing too much doesn't actually change the experience of anyone else.

And the fact is, you still have significant gain from having a deep roster to get two 25's through, and/or spending extra raid hours on fully gearing up an alt crew. So your 7-day guilds still have an advantage, and still can raid the extra hours, it's just a less-obvious one and one that is less fulfilling to them.

The bright spot is there is no "tribute" like in ToC for a 'perfect' clear.

"In the weeks and months after all twelve encounters are unlocked, additional attempts against the final four boss encounters become available. This represents the Ashen Verdict growing more powerful and gaining a stronger foothold in Icecrown Citadel. To further help raids, Varian Wrynn and Garrosh Hellscream will begin to provide assistance by inspiring the armies attacking Icecrown Citadel. This is represented as an additional zone wide spell effect applied to all players that will increase their hit points, damage dealt, and healing done. This effect will also increase in effectiveness over time. Players may opt out of the spell's effect if they so wish."

This is the only other part that I like. It's basically gear-scaling, which Blizzard's dungeons have really needed. If you're slower to progress through the dungeon, you gain more gear (and these buffs) to make it easier, rather than having to figure out how to nerf encounters.

Comments:

Baadshah   <In Real Life> Dawnbringer (US) 23 Nov 2009 17:10 3.2.2a
 

The only thing I like about this is that bosses don't need to be nerfed- players will grow more powerful over time. I'm reminded of what Ulduar was like on my server- The first 6-8 bosses were doable by most guilds (25 man) and then bam! Stuck on the next boss, no matter how much gear you got from the previous bosses/refined your strat. This caused a lot of guilds to break up and not even go near Ulduar again when ToC came out.
With this system, at least we know that eventually raids WILL be able to down bosses, hang the gear.
Obviously I can see why serious, hardcore guilds would find this frustrating, but as the recent interview with WoW's designers shows, they want everyone to be able to experience endgame content (ergo Karazhan's popularity in BC).

However, I agree that the gate system plus the limited attempt system is beyond annoying and honestly more of an attempt to babysit us than anything else.

Ring0   <Wrath> Shadowsong (EU) 19 Nov 2009 20:46 3.2.2a
 

This is a disappointing system both from the perspective of the hardcore guilds that this is aimed at 'helping' and the casual guilds, who will no doubt feel the worst part of having limited attempts on the final bosses but are not affected by the gating.

This is definitely not the 'epic' confrontation with the Lich King that we had in mind when the expansion first came around the corner. Hello here's some attempts - by the way your tank just DC'ed and can't get past connecting LOL! Come back next week with 24 friends and try again!

It used to be that the bosses themselves were hard enough that you didn't need to artificially halt progress. While content that is accesible is a right step forward, despite the green-geared DK alts of Vernon the Hunter with expertise trinkets, limiting how many tries you get on a boss is just a horrible idea, material reward or not.

Next step: limited amount of minutes allowed online?

fyritke   <Rakicide> Turalyon (US) 20 Nov 2009 09:30 3.2.2a
 

They already did that with Algalon. lols!

I miss Sunwell, and even THAT had gating.

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I know boss taktics and i killed someone.

noldorimbor   <SlashCry> Kazzak (EU) 19 Nov 2009 01:07 3.2.2a
 

This is really disappointing and it's quite confusing seeing people cheering for this. Basically what we get for what we pay is being reduced. I have no idea why people are happy that "now hardcores won't be able to raid 24/7". I am in a hardcore guild that raids the common 19:00-00:00 times and I would just accept those who would raid 24/7 get quicker results than us.

All I get when I read Daelo's post is : "We won't be able to release Cataclysm as early as we thought and we don't have a Sunwell for Wotlk"

Meuhrlin   <Bière de Légende> Rashgarroth (EU) 19 Nov 2009 00:16 3.2.2a
 

Sunwell gates + ToGC limited attempts with just 5?
Worst ever... nothing to add.

fyritke   <Rakicide> Turalyon (US) 18 Nov 2009 22:53 3.2.2a
 

Hum ho. Several weeks is a bit much...two weeks, three weeks, okay. SEVERAL? For FIVE ATTEMPTS? as;ldjkgioaetjhijea, sirs, as;ldjkgioaetjhijea. That is the sound of me rolling my face around on the keyboard because well, really, what else can I do in response? It seems to be what they have done to come up with it.

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I know boss taktics and i killed someone.

Inkslinger   <Lab Rats> Turalyon (US) 18 Nov 2009 15:38 3.2.2a
 

Ugh....disappointing indeed.

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